Jul 10
Three on Theology #2
in Atonement, Doctrine, Gospel, Orthodoxy, Theology, ThreeOnTheology
4 Comments »
  1. What makes a doctrine important?Is a lack of experiential impact a sign that a doctrine is not important? What else makes a doctrine important? Below you can see how this question developed for me (a reminder to self that theology is not an abstract system of truth–although certainly truth–foremost, it is about who the living God is).
    • This question was raised by means of a post by Andrew at Theogeek, who was wondering if the doctrine of Penal Substitionary Atonement is significant if it does not make a difference in lived experience and if people hold to some functional equivalent.
    • I wrote a post expressing my un-ease with this, since it tends to negate the historical function of doctrines and since I also wonder whether functional equivalence “works.”
    • I don’t think I was listening very well, perhaps because I was bothered by the idea. Brad H responded in a comment that helped me understand what Andrew’s chief point may be: “what does a doctrine matter if there is no discernible experiential effect?”
    • My response, in a comment:
      1. But if doctrine, however abstract, is about something relational (God in relation to humans/humanity), even if we can’t discern the experiential effect on the human side, does it not convey important information about who God is? Hence, is a doctrine, which says something about who God is, not intrinsically important, regardless of its perceived effect on the human side?
      2. Is a notion of orthodoxy not enough to care for and guard some doctrines in any case? Shouldn’t we just care about the truth of the matter, regardless of personal impact?

    What do you think? What makes a doctrine important?

  2. Is a gospel awakening happening? Drew Goodmanson writes in a post that the recent Gospel Coalition conference (I was able to attend most of it) may be a sign of gospel awakening because it represents three shifts in thinking about the gospel by the Evangelical Center (referring to the center is my way of stating what Goodmanson is saying). First, a shift toward acknowledging scripture as normative narrative. Second, the shift to thinking of the gospel as bigger than a ticket to heaven. Third, the shift that the gospel requires a missional posture toward the world. I had appreciated those aspects of the gospel coalition conference without really thinking about them. Goodmanson’s post help me see their significance. I should add a caveat that a church seeking to be scripturally faithful 50 years ago was probably emphasizing these things in its own ways. But the way they are being said now is important and encouraging. Here are links to the Gospel Coalition foundational documents and audio and video.HT for Gospel Coalition documents: Steve McCoy
  3. The papacy as a guarantee striving to be stronger than the cross An Orthodox priest, Father Stephen, writes about Pope Benedict XVI’s re-assertion of submission to papal primacy as a mark of the true church:

    Universal Primacy has a way of offering a guarantee that transcends the cross. No matter how badly we fail, the de jure Primacy of the Pope in every local Church, guarantees that no one can really mess it up. I think that is neat, and the product of human imagination. I believe that God has established His Church such that, just like Christ, when pierced with nails it will bleed. Only love binds the Church together, nothing more.

    HT: JS Bangs, Boar’s Head Tavern

4 Responses to “Three on Theology #2”
 

Re The pope and the cross. Please do not misunderstand the point. My argument is that RC ecclesiology has posited the institutionalized universal primacy as the guarantee of the Church. It is, of course, wrong. I argue that the cross is the proper model in thinking of ecclesiology (though it is weak in a Divine sense). We are invited to live towards one another in the weakness of the cross. Only love binds us together.

Fatherstephen wrote on July 10th, 2007 at 10:07 pm

 

Thanks for the comment!

I don’t think I misunderstood. I thought your point about not exceeding the guarantee of the cross excellent. In a way, every doctrinal system is an attempt at guaranteeing the church, and every system is in danger of over-guaranteeing the church, if the cross is not at the center.

dwright wrote on July 10th, 2007 at 10:14 pm

 

Hi Nelmezzo,

Just stumbled across your post here. Regarding your first question, I like to think that orthodoxy and orthopraxy ought to be intimately linked. In my opinion, theology for the sake of theology itself is irrelevant. The purpose of my theology is to help me live, and to help others do the same. So I believe the important doctrines are those which help me to think and live in a way more in line with Jesus and experience the kind of life God intended for me and those around me.

That isn’t the only reason people might consider a doctrine important. In the case of penal substitution, I know Christians who believe that I would be sent to hell if I were to not believe, trust and accept that this specific theory of atonement is the means of my salvation. So that’s another reason for importance of some doctrines – their importance for people’s eternal destinies. Hence, people may emphasize different doctrines depending on what they consider the criteria for God’s final judgment.

The last reason that comes to mind for people to place importance on particular doctrines is one of identity. For example, a Christian may identify themselves with a particular denomination or tradition and thus place importance on the doctrines peculiar to that tradition. This reason strikes me as not a very good one, but nevertheless I think it is a strong factor for many Christians.

I hope you found something interesting in all that ramble =)

Reuben wrote on July 11th, 2007 at 1:13 am

 

Thank you for stopping in, Reuben.

So far in the discussion, I think we now have 6 kinds of reasons why a doctrine might be considered important:

1. Experiential effect (in one’s life): (Andrew and Theo Geek, Reuben, Brad H)
2. link of a doctrine to orthopraxy (possibly identical to 1) (Reuben, probl. Andrew and Brad H.)
3. Necessity to salvation (Reuben)
4. Important to identity (Reuben)
5. Important as “JPT” just plain truth (Me)
6. If about God, important because about God (even if human importance not discernible), since in a relationship any knowledge of the other is important, and with God all the more so. (Me)

I don’t deny 1 + 2 as reasons for the importance of doctrine s (and linked to most doctrines that are important).
Concerning 3, some doctrines that important for this reason probably exist, although I would not necessarily emphasize the concept of doctrine at this point. I.e., for salvation, it is necessary to have faith in Christ, to repent, to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, etc.–whatever doctrines are the doctrinal formulations of these could be seen to satisfy 3. Although, isn’t it the person of Christ in whom we have faith who is necessary for salvation? So it’s not the doctrine per se, but the doctrine is a way of stating what is necessary.
Regarding 4, I could see it as a source of importance in some cases. If I were Catholic, the primacy of the papacy would have to be important, whether I could see how it affected me.

My question: do you think there are valid instances of 5 and 6? I think there are. Although, I think that most of them would actually also have an impact along the lines of 1 and 2 and some might satisfy 3.

For example, to be specific. If I am persuaded that scripture teaches penal substitionary atonement (as I am–although scripture also gives other ways of understanding atonement, too–ransom, Christus Victor, etc.), is this an important doctrine, even if, for some reason, I cannot formulate a connection to 1 or 2?

Personally, I would like to affirm 5 and 6, even where I cannot find 1 or 2, although I believe that if you have a whole bunch of doctrines that don’t satisfy 1 or 2, something is probably wrong.

dwright wrote on July 11th, 2007 at 10:26 pm

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